Rule of the Day - "racing room"

[BlueFirePony]

25.4 Rules For Overtaking
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25.4.2 Punting
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Once the trailing car has its front wheel next to the driver of the other vehicle, it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there. And, that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver enough “racing room.” In most cases, “racing room” is defined as “at least three quarters of one car width.”

I talked to a few of you about this part of the passing rule section at TWS and actually over the last year have gotten several different interpretations. Sooo..

My expectation has always been that racing room in club racing was determined as the area between my car and your car, NOT the amount of room I leave you "on track".
If I am the lead car, I am obligated to give you enough room to place 4 wheels on track PLUS additional room between us so that we can both negotiate the turn without having to lean on each other. As specified that is typically "at least three quarters of one car width" BETWEEN us in addition to whatever room you need to keep four wheels on.
Yes? No?
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[Fbody383]

If I am the lead car, I am obligated to give you enough room to place 4 wheels on track PLUS additional room between us so that we can both negotiate the turn without having to lean on each other.Yes? No?

I'll take "no" and "why do I feel compelled to answer this."

Total required space, including space between the cars, is 3/4ths of a car when there is no fixed barrier. I still think there is some grey area when two cars are door to door with no clear position and that the passing car has to safely complete the pass.

It IS wheel to wheel racing and not time trial. I have found all of this group to attempt to give "as much room as possible." Usually. I have also had the nose chopped pretty good on a couple of occassions.

It is advantageous to be able to lean on another driver's comfort zone; if I know that driving very close to someone will aid me in cleanly gaining track position, expect it to happen.

Now, will some folks disagree on what is too aggressive in the quest for plastic medals? Certainly; we've seen some of that this week. Does that necessarily make anyone wrong? I don't think so.

My limited experience to date is that someone in a session has more skill, more car and more determination to get to the front than I do. Doesn't mean I have to roll over and give it to them.

Did this come from anything specific at TWS, pre-Hallett jitters, growth as a driver? Just curious.

[marshall_mosty]

My understanding is 3/4" of a car width of car is given to the passing car. ie if the passing driving tries to take the unprotected inside line going into a braking zone, the lead car only HAS to give 3/4 of the cars width of of track to the overtaking car. This would put the overtaking car's inside tires in the dirt.

However, my experience with this group is we give a generous 1-1.5 car widths for passing.

Regarding distance for side-to-side and front-to-back, there is no "buffer" as long as there is no contact.

[mitchntx]

My understanding is 3/4" of a car width of car is given to the passing car. ie if the passing driving tries to take the unprotected inside line going into a braking zone, the lead car only HAS to give 3/4 of the cars width of of track to the overtaking car. This would put the overtaking car's inside tires in the dirt.

This will depend entirely on who you are.

You have either committed a low percentage move, endangering other drivers or you have aggressively taken position away.

I've witnessed the same move by various drivers and seen it labeled both ways.

[GlennCMC70]

Interesting POV Brian.
Most of us here dont likethe 3/4 car rule. I would love to see the CCR change that to a full car.

[Alien]

Regarding distance for side-to-side and front-to-back, there is no "buffer" as long as there is no contact.

This is the way I've always read that rule. The room between your car the car next to you is determined by how pretty a paint job he has or how expensive their car is. ie, for when Jay Carley passes me, I'm giving 2+ car widths

I'm pretty sure the intent of the 3/4 rule is how much track you (leading car) are supposed to leave the other guy. Agreed that for this level of racing it might be best to word it as min 1 car width.

[mitchntx]

FWIW and not trying to muck this thread up ...

I realize whole-heartedly that this isn't HPDE. But I also realize that we're not racing for a million dollars.

Any one see Denny Hamlin and Kurt Bush last night?

Any one notice how pissed off Bush was?

Any one see any similarities to this race group?

Any one see my point?

[BlueFirePony]

Yep - just trying to grow as a driver.
My intent is pretty straightforward - I want to understand how everyone interprets the rule, and then factor that into how I will race. I know there are some situational supplements in the CCR but similar to hockey I think the rules can always be clarified amongs competitors just a bit better for my liking. It keeps any possible "aftermath" a lot more objective.

So let me lick off the start of an "evolution of a pass" here:

I am behind you coming up to a right hand turn - maybe I am pulling on you a bit. You have a defensive line but there is a good car and a half on your inside coming to the turn - I position myself on that line - you hold your line.
I wait for your lights and then brake inside knowing that I can out brake you - I get my front wheel to your door before turn in.

According the the rule then you can take away all the track at turn in leaving me to finish the evolution 2 wheels off right?
However, as illustrated on page 119 of the CCR, you cannot assume my turn in point so you would be at fault for any contact right?

[mitchntx]

If any one has an opinion, please post it up.

Stop all the behind the scenes phone calls, PMs and e-mail about series concerns.

Telling me or him or her about your issue does NOTHING to fix it.

The only way a concern can be addressed is by discussing it.

So ... if you are OK with Brian's dissection, then say so. If not, say so and why.

[BlueFirePony]

If any one has an opinion, please post it up.

Stop all the behind the scenes phone calls, PMs and e-mail about series concerns.

Telling me or him or her about your issue does NOTHING to fix it.

The only way a concern can be addressed is by discussing it.

So ... if you are OK with Brian's dissection, then say so. If not, say so and why.

Yow...guys...sincere attempt to learn here! Is this really creating a stir!? If so, I'll bow out now and just see all y'all at Hallett for some fun and competitive racing...trust me..I'll give you plenty of room regardless.