TWS IRB Results

[Todd Covini]

Thanks for your patience while we finalize the IRB process and season points. They will be released as soon as they are final, and we continue to work on that daily.

-=- Todd

[Todd Covini]

After a long week of IRB deliberations, the July TWS race results are now final. For those who are unaware, there was an unfortunate incident in CMC between a CMC Champion and a CMC Championship contender which caused damage per the CCR and took both vehicles out of season contention.

Come Monday morning, an IRB was formed with Todd Covini, Bryan Leinhart and Al Fernandez. Information gathering included weekend interviews, statements, video reviews, and discussions with various parties from various regions, including the National office.

The final conclusion of the IRB: Glenn Landrum was at fault for failing to properly control his racecar and causing an incident with vehicle damage per the CCR.

Unlike this incident, typical penalty for a minor first time offense causing damage in Texas has historically been a DQ and a defined probation period. The CCR states that the penalty for causing damage and track deviation is a DQ and 1 race suspension, however, in light of the fact that Mr. Landrum was on probation for failing to complete a body contact form at the previous event, as well as reports of aggressive driving during the race and existing season driver points...the IRB recommended to Race Director Clifton Winkleman that, at a minimum, double the CCR penalty was warranted in this instance.

The Race Director's final penalty assessment for Glenn Landrum's incident going forward was determined to be:
a) Race Disqualification
b) 2 race suspension (EXCLUDING National Championships)
c) 2 weekend probation (INCLUDING National Championships)
d) 3 driver points

A re-occurence of at-fault contact while on probation will mean AT A MINIMUM, this penalty will be doubled. This IRB represented the views of all racers, from various backgrounds. At some point in the process, penalty recommendations were stronger, at other points, the penalty recommendations were lessor. In the end, the process worked.

Updated season points will be posted here shortly. I will let Al discuss "new norms" for stricter adherence to CCR 27.11 for issuing body contact penalties in the future, once he returns from vacation.

-=- Todd

[GlennCMC70]

Allow me a few comments please.

27.9 The Collection
When a driver spins or otherwise loses control over his/ her vehicle, and the car(s) following that person hits the spinning car, fault can be hard to determine. In most cases, this is considered to be a racing incident. The normal highway “following too close” law does not apply to the racetrack. Whenever a car spins out of control, it is up to the reactions and instincts of the following drivers to brake, accelerate, or swerve in order to miss the spinning car. In most cases, the following driver that fails to avoid a spinning car and/or causes more cars to become involved, should not be held liable. About the only time that any penalties are issued in this type of situation is to the driver that spun, should this driver be on probation at the time of the spin.

Under the guidelines of the CCR, the fact that I was on probation is the only reason a penalty should be handed out in this case. Had I turned in a contact form at Hallet, there would be no grounds for issuing a penalty. And understand, the probation was for not turning in paperwork for contact that did not require any penalty of any form. Something which I have allowed most everyone to get away with. For contact that was in no way my fault.

27.11 Issuing Penalties
The IRB may choose to issue any penalty for any infraction. However, it is highly recommended that they follow closely with what is published in the rulebook. Any deviation from what is published without due proof of mitigating circumstance may be grounds for appeal. The following is a list of suggested penalties for the listed infraction:
1. Contact bumper to bumper with no deviation and no damage: No penalty
2. Any sheet metal contact with no damage and no deviation: No penalty
3. Any contact causing deviation, with no damage, but loss of a position: Reposition
4. Any contact resulting in “damage” as defined by these guidelines: One (1) race suspension
5. Any contact resulting in a “punt” as defined by these guidelines: Disqualification
6. Any contact resulting in damage and punt: Disqualification and one (1) race
suspension
7. Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Reposition to last place
(minimum)
8. Passing under waving yellow and / or over-driving any yellow: Disqualification
(minimum)
These are general guidelines for standard penalties. They may be additive or
multiplicative depending on the situation and the person’s past record. The IRB may
invoke more severe penalties for repeated violations. Any deviation from these
guidelines should be justified in the report to the Race Director.

But, since I was on probation from Hallett, I am subject to a penalty. That penalty should consist of a single race suspension. Rarely do we as a series follow the recommendation of the CCR for penalties; the norm is to tone it down some. In this case the IRB felt the penalty should be increased to more than what we normally hand out, increased to more than what the CCR recommends. In fact the IRB saw it fit to double this penalty. A precedent that had never before been set with-in this region. If doubling the CCR recommended penalty was not enough, the IRB felt that a two weekend probation should be added on. Something the CCR makes no mention of as a suggested penalty. I was essentially handed a penalty that is 4 times the recommended CCR penalty. To add to this even more so, the two Sunday races I missed at TWS do not count towards my 2 race suspension.


27.3 Data Collection
The Chief of the IRB shall ensure that at least one (1) member from the IRB is in impound after each race, for all classes. IRB members that are present in impound shall ensure that all drivers involved in on-track incidences fill out a body contact report form. The IRB member(s) shall collect these forms, make notes as to the damage that they observed, question the parties involved, and make notes on the forms. These forms shall be turned over to the Chief of the IRB for review. At the end of the day’s activities, the IRB shall meet, review each case, make the appropriate decisions, and turn over the findings and reports to the Race Director. Exact meeting times and places shall be determined the Chief of the IRB.

The reason I feel as though the TWS Sunday two missed races should count as my required two race suspension is the above point. The IRB should have concluded at the end of the days activities. If the IRB had followed the CCR, the penalty would have been handed out Saturday and would have been effective from that point in time. Thus, my Sunday races would be my required two race suspension. Since the IRB did not follow the requirements of the CCR, my two race suspension has now been turned into a four race suspension. So at this point I am at about 6 times the recommended CCR penalty.

27.4.1 Body Contact
Body Contact is defined as any part of any car making physical contact with another car significant enough to cause one (1) car to sustain body damage or to be significantly
knocked off of the racing line.

This is to point out that I was assed a penalty point for the contact at Hallett and section 27.11 item 1 points out that I should not have received a penalty point. This point was a factor in the outcome of the IRB.

27.2 Format
The Race Director shall appoint or approve a Chief of the IRB. The Race Director may function to fill this position if needed. This Chief shall report directly to the Race Director. The IRB shall be made up of three (3) to five (5) drivers, crews, and/or Officials. Each IRB member must be a participating member of NASA, and have at least one (1) year of racing experience. The Race Director has the power and authority to waive these requirements, or exclude individuals for due cause. Any articipating driver may attend and audit IRB sessions, subject to the approval of the Race Director. The IRB shall constantly recruit new volunteers to sit in on (audit) sessions and become properly trained. The IRB is encouraged to make attending IRB sessions a requirement for some drivers as part of their due penalties. To be a voting member of the IRB, the person must have fully read and understood these guidelines, and must have audited at least one (1) IRB session.

I feel fairly confident that one person seated on the IRB did not meet these requirements.


Understand, I feel horrible about the damage to Rob’s car. I feel horrible for the loss of control of my car that could have had much more serious consequences. I have spoke to Rob and expressed how sorry I am for what happened. I apologized to the group on Sunday for my actions.

So what have I learned from all of this you ask? I have learned I need to take a look at my driving style. This was something I have begun to take a look at and have been adjusting since MSR-C of this year. I have learned that I possibly need to make further adjustments to what I’m doing. This as a result of this IRB and as a result of conversations that have taken place here on this site.

But I have also learned other things as well. I have learned that my fellow racers feel as though the CCR is too forgiving and that penalties need to be ramped up. The IRB has spoken and it has been well received. As Todd mentioned, things are about to change in a very big way.

So with that said, I accept the penalties issued from the IRB. I did however appeal the penalty to the Race Director and made it quite clear I was only appealing one part of the penalty and one part only.

During the previous two events prior to TWS, there were two similar incidents, one of which I was on the receiving end of, no different then Rob. In both those cases, the drivers who were found at fault were in no way remotely penalized to this degree.

[Fbody383]

In the end, the process worked.

For whom? I'm not convinced it all happened the way it was supposed to.

I guess it's time to memorize the CCR.

I'll admit I'm just pissed about what happened ~ thank God nobody got hurt.

[Al Fernandez]

John Lindsey was also part of the IRB. Todd forgot to mention that.

David: speak your mind then. Saying you're "not sure" adds zero value to anyone. Same goes to the rest of you. Speak your mind. If you dont want to speak your mind in public, call me and tell me what you're thinking. I cannot fix what I do not know is broken.

Glenn, the reason you are receiving any penalty is because you were at fault for contact causing damage and loss of position. The reason it was so severe was due to overagressive driving in your history and being on probation. You were not given a point on the Shit List due to the Hallett incident. Obviously we still need to talk through some of these details, I'm available any time.

[mitchntx]

First of all ...

No one ... NO ONE ... has been more vocal about driver conduct on course than I have. I have been critical of Glenn's driving as well as others. So remember that ...

I can't believe this witch hunt. This is beyond ridiculous.

Figure twelve in the CCR is abundantly clear ... Glenn didn't even have to attempt to turn. He could have gone straight through the turn and the burden is on Rob to avoid contact. I think it's a stupid rule, but it's the rule.

But Glenn DID turn, left plenty of track for Rob and cleared Rob's bumper which, according to the CCR, means the pass was completed and completed without contact.

So all examples of contact the CCR lays out, pointing the fickle finger of blame as it pertains to contact while passing are gone. They don't apply. They are off the table.

No contact occurred while attempting a pass.

The contact occurred post pass and therefore falls into the section called "Collection".

And again, the CCR is clear ... the trailing driver has the burden to avoid contact. If contact occurs, there is typically no fault given and no penalty assessed.

UNLESS ... the spinning driver (Glenn) is on probation. That is the ONLY trigger that would convene a review to assess if a penalty is warranted.

Penalty ... PENALTY ... not fault ... PEANLTY. Two completely seperate factions of an IRB.

And I think it's an important point out that Glenn's probation was administrative and not the result of on-course conduct. He failed to turn in paperwork for insignificant bumper-to-bumper contact between he and Chris McComb at Hallett.

And if the reason for that be known, he was working to set grid for the rest of us to go racing. Remember the bitch-fest about not being contacted to go to grid and the lateness of the grid being set?

So, the lesser of two evils, right? Had he filled out that piece of paper, all this review would have never have happened.

By the same token, had Rob let Glenn continue his path of self destruction, both cars would have finished the race. Rob was clearly in position to take the spot back after Glenn went agricultural, why attempt to squirt by? No one was pressuring you guys for position ... Easy to Monday morning QB, eh?

So the fact that he was on probation triggered the review.

Then a witch hunt ensues.

Again, the CCR is clear ... contact with damage ... 1 race suspension and 1 weekend probation. No, let's double it to make an example.

Well that's bullshit. Follow the damn rules. Don't get all pias, high and mighty. Just follow the damn rules.

This is exactly what happens when the rules are "flexed" to a point where no one can interpret what will happen next. This "whim" of a penalty is just as bad as no penalty from a rules application POV.

Who knows WTF will happen next time. Quadruple it? Wash cars? Give pedicures? Dress in a diaper and follow Clifton around the paddock?

And you want history?

How about as recent as June of THIS year. Bryan White turns left to avoid contact with Caulder which had gone off track and clearly had an ill-handling race car as evidenced 300 yards later in the Bitch.

While trying to avoid Caulder, Bryan spins and Dave Balingit and he get together causing severe damage to both cars. Penalties?

White assessed a DQ ...

This is NOT about defending Glenn, it's about following the damn rules with at least some consistency and not about easing your conscience for not doing so for so many years.

No one is more disappointed that two cars are torn all to hell, bids to go to nationals are squashed, that the prophet Rob's prediction came true, the conduct of the leadership and the pendulum swing as far off the scale to the left as it has.

And to answer your question publicly ... yes, Todd ... Glenn and I argue about this stuff all the time ... in person, over the phone and here on the boards.

I'm the same person, with the same views and the same opinions here or any where.

But I'm sure this thread is doomed as well because nothing will be "fixed" here either.

Learning and understanding the rules is secondary, I guess, to maintaining a public image through Todd colored glasses.

What color is that today?

[GlennCMC70]

John Lindsey was also part of the IRB. Todd forgot to mention that.

That is correct. From my understanding he was added due to the lack of ablity of two of the IRB members to agree upon a penalty. He was there to mediate those two members. The disagreement was due to a significant delta between the proposed penalties. Again, from what I'm told.

[Fbody383]

David: speak your mind then. Saying you're "not sure" adds zero value to anyone.

Ok, from my original, revised and ultimately deleted draft response: This is bullshit!

I dont know what's unclear about:

I'm not convinced it all happened the way it was supposed to.

If you dont want to speak your mind in public, call me and tell me what you're thinking.

If it's not done in public, i.e. an after the fact, outside the rules IRB, it doesn't progress the situation. I'll be public and bear the risk of pissing these guys off: J. Kellam, R. King and R. Boudreaux ~ after Glenn, you guys are at the top of my list of cars I look out for on track. Jeremiah is aggressive with control, though I expect he'll have a similar incident and I hope it's in region and not at Nationals. The Roberts seem to have more aggressiveness than car control. Pot calling the kettle black? Maybe; don't worry, I got thick skin.

And all you guys that delete posts, instead of standing on it or having to admit a mistake, are a bunch of bitchy little girls.

Glenn, the reason you are receiving any penalty is because you were at fault for contact causing damage and loss of position. The reason it was so severe was due to overagressive driving in your history and being on probation.

Well that's bullshit. Follow the damn rules. Don't get all pias, high and mighty. Just follow the damn rules.

So it takes an incident tearing up two cars to address "overagressing driving in (a drivers) history" to enforce penalties, including to my understanding right now, made up penalties?

Speaking of that, how about my disqualificaiton according to the rules AND example setting pit drive through in Houston for being underweight?

I guess the only thing that could make this worse is by penalizing the Ford guy for the second gear, full throttle punch into the Chevy.

HOW IS THIS FOR CLEAR:
1) Am I currently serving any form of probation or discipline for failure to report my incidental contact with Mr. Vogl at Hallett? Do you request or require a post event contact report form?
2) Post, in a clearly titled thread, my existing "shit list" points and occurrences.

For now, I see it like this: we're a bunch of competitive 'A' type personalities with a common interest in RACING, small block V8 pony cars. We operate instruments designed and tuned for a specific purpose that involves speed and close quarters operation. There will be incidents, it's how we handle them matters.

Orange is fast, but color me PISSED.

[Fbody383]

The Race Director's final penalty assessment for Glenn Landrum's incident going forward was determined to be:
a) Race Disqualification
b) 2 race suspension (EXCLUDING National Championships)
c) 2 weekend probation (INCLUDING National Championships)
d) 3 driver points

How are suspensions served?
Where is it addressed in the CCR and/or CMC ruleset?
If this was such an egregious offense to earn the described penalties, why exclude Nationals?

[AllZWay]

I think you guys meant well in your IRB board and understand the want to curb overly aggressive contact....... but I think we have now knee jerked to the opposite end of the spectrum.

Racing is racing and crap happens.... and this incident I don't think most anyone would consider as overly aggressive driving....at least from what I can tell from the video.

Now... can we get an explantaion of just what is considered overly aggressive driving and what is just a racing accident?