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Thread: CBP - Cheatin' Bastard Practice

  1. #31
    Senior Member Grass-Passer oz98cobra's Avatar
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    On the subject of 888s ... we had not had the chance to test on them before racing on them this past weekend, so we can't offer any "back to back" testing data like Mitch's .. only more seat of the pants feedback, so here it is ...

    Mason liked them on a wet track - very predictable.

    In the dry, at first I hated them - they felt like street tires compared to shaved RA1s - probably because they ARE street tires with their big angled tread blocks - I drive a lot of cars on a lot of different tires and it took some time for me to adjust and learn to use these things effectively. By the end of the weekend, I hate them less ... pretty good for street tires

    It does seem like they need higher starting pressures than RA1s .. a few PSI, although we need to do some real testing before we can say this for sure. Likewise as to the question of whether they are slower than RA1s - gut feeling says yes - perhaps 1/2 a second a lap around MSRC in an AI car.

    They are clearly a "stiffer" tire, which would account for many of the CMC/CMC2 guys finding they need to soften spring rates some to make them work - we probably don't need to alter our spring rates for AI, but we did need to make shock adjustments to compensate.

    Despite being stiffer, they got up to working pressure faster than RA1s - I'm guessing this is due to the tread blocks walking around and creating more heat. They also clearly fall away significantly when they get too hot.

    So we have a tire that gets hot quickly, works fairly well for a couple laps, then starts to fall away, but we can't run lower pressures to make them stay on the pace longer because although they are stiffer, lower pressures build heat faster due to sidewall movement and that compounds the heat buildup from the tread movement .. in other words, a street tire!

    Having said all that, they remain drivable when hot, just slower - at least for a hard driven 20 minute race - who knows how they will hold up in a 40 minute race? Oh and it does look like they need to be heat cycled - the first dry session we drove on these stickered tires where we got any heat in them on Saturday, they really went away fast once they got up to temp - they were fine on Sunday.

    I found that these tires do not like to be over driven .. start exceeding the slip angle, and they suck - they obviously get too hot - this is not what I would consider a desirable trait for CMC racing - you guys who are used to hanging it all out lap after lap on RA1s are gonna have to tidy it up, or you will be slower and chew through these 888s like they are going out of fashion.

    Once we are all using them, comparing them to RA1s is a mute point - at least for the rest of this season - we have to learn to adapt and live with them. My feeling is that these "street tires" will add a dynamic that an AI team like Cooke/Melkowits with our discipline and testing oportunites can learn to adapt to and live with, but overall for NASA style club racing in general, this is a HUGE step in the wrong direction, and given that we think they are going to last half as long and they cost significantly more, doubling our tire bills in the current economic climate is not going to be acceptable or achievable to many drivers/teams.
    Daron
    AI75 DownUnder Racing

  2. #32
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Rob Liebbe's Avatar
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    Nice write up. I do see a lot of discussion coming about the 888 in the near future.
    Rob Liebbe - Texas Region
    Camaro, Mustang, doesn't matter to me, I'll race it.

  3. #33
    Excellent info Darron. I agree with you. I bumped up my 888s pressure more again this weekend and found they did not fall off as much over the course of a session as they were doing last time at Houston.
    Al Fernandez

  4. #34
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
    Excellent info Darron. I agree with you. I bumped up my 888s pressure more again this weekend and found they did not fall off as much over the course of a session as they were doing last time at Houston.
    R4, car 5, Fast lap #11 of 11 @ 1:25.667

  5. #35
    SHHHHH!! I'm embarrassed enough that I'm still slower than the real men in CMC without you broadcasting it all over the place!! :lol:
    Al Fernandez

  6. #36
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Rob Liebbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
    SHHHHH!! I'm embarrassed enough that I'm still slower than the real men in CMC without you broadcasting it all over the place!! :lol:
    The real men in CMC were on RA1's.
    Rob Liebbe - Texas Region
    Camaro, Mustang, doesn't matter to me, I'll race it.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
    SHHHHH!! I'm embarrassed enough that I'm still slower than the real men in CMC without you broadcasting it all over the place!! :lol:
    The real men in CMC were on RA1's.
    Should be fun next event when everyone is on 888's. For those that haven't wondered into that territory yet, it's going to be fun watching the expressions when see the time sheets and are 1-2sec slower 8) 8)



    Time to run AIX on Hoosiers. :lol:
    2004 Camaro Mustang Challenge Champion
    2005 Camaro Mustang Challenge Champion

  8. #38
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Wirtz's Avatar
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    So on the subject of R888s, I heard speculation on two different dates for when R888s are required, and neither of those matched what I thought was the rule (that being RA1s = ok for the first two events). I tried a quick search on NASA Forums and on the main NASA page and didn't see what I was looking for. So, can some link the offical ruling?

    Edit: this is what I find still on the NASA site.
    http://www.nasaproracing.com/news/20...tire-r888.html

  9. #39
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby GlennCMC70's Avatar
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    if you want the regional answer, call Al, or me on my cell.
    214-869-9603

  10. #40
    Senior Member Grass-Passer jeremiahkellam's Avatar
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    Why don't you just post a regional answer??
    2010 CMC2 National Champion
    2010 Texas CMC2 Champion
    2010 Summer Shootout Champion - CMC2
    Call it what you want... But that sounds like a Triple Crown to me!!
    http://www.gagemotorsports.com

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