Why can't a Mustang run a torque arm?

[ShadowBolt]

Faster than what? Faster than a 4th gen? or faster than it is? My answer to both is yes.

But you don't think the Camaro is faster with the torque arm than the Mustang is without one?

We need the Stig.

JJ

[GlennCMC70]

But you don't think the Camaro is faster with the torque arm than the Mustang is without one?

We need the Stig.

JJ

We have seen class dominance w/ Fox's, SN-95's, 3rd gens, 4th gens. It comes and goes.
So no, I don't think there is a difference here worth making an adjustment for. But don't leave it up to me, submit a rules change resquest and see what happens. My opinion is only one of many.

[michaelmosty]

We have seen class dominance w/ Fox's, SN-95's, 3rd gens, 4th gens. It comes and goes.
So no, I don't think there is a difference here worth making an adjustment for. But don't leave it up to me, submit a rules change resquest and see what happens. My opinion is only one of many.

The only time a Fox has dominated the class was back when it was Varner, Covini, and Ginsberg.....and they all drove a Fox!!
Not sure what your classification of dominance is. ;^)

[ShadowBolt]

The only time a Fox has dominated the class was back when it was Varner, Covini, and Ginsberg.....and they all drove a Fox!!
Not sure what your classification of dominance is. ;^)

I agree that was streatching.

So a Camaro with a torque arm and coil-overs does not have an advantage over a Mustang (without these items) but if you add these things to a Mustang it will be a way better car than a Camaro is. I guess I understand now.

JJ

[BryanL]

I agree that was streatching.

So a Camaro with a torque arm and coil-overs does not have an advantage over a Mustang (without these items) but if you add these things to a Mustang it will be a way better car than a Camaro is. I guess I understand now.

JJ

I think a Camaro with a torque arm WITHOUT coilovers has an advantage-look at the dominance that has been done with the 3rd Gen chassis.

Are you looking for a way to fix the chassis problems of the PM3L or do you want to talk platform parity? Do you want to allow the Fox a torque arm only and not the SN95 or do you think the SN95 is at a disadvantage too? What would it prove if you put a torque arm on a mustang and it ran 1 second quicker? Then it would get weight to bring it back in line don't you think?

[GlennCMC70]

I'm allowed an opinion. Sorry if that offends you.
SN-95's are Fox's too, or so says the Ford camp.
The cars are even w/ the way the cars sit now - weight, area under the curve, blah, blah, blah. My opinion.
You have yours.
If your right, the Director vote on the issue you submit for change will result in a change.



Everyone needs to take a few minutes one day and write down how much open track/racing seat time they have and compare that to how much the folks that beat them have. Odds are that the top finishers will show to have much more seat time than the "Lesser Speedy" guys. In this hobby, seat time is king. There is no rewards weight for ability.
Good luck guys - this one has jumped the shark.

[David Love AI27]

I don't care what is "allowed" any more... beef up supports, add non factory TAs... the rules changes basically elimated the TPI motor... so I don't care what happens now...

Everyone needs to take a few minutes one day and write down how much open track/racing seat time they have and compare that to how much the folks that beat them have. Odds are that the top finishers will show to have much more seat time than the "Lesser Speedy" guys. In this hobby, seat time is king.

AND prep time... Fox bodies dominated with Todd and Adam because of experience and then there was ShuVarner (he was just a natural)... Then came 3rd Gens with the Jeff's... Seat time AND prep time... The Jeffs had the best prepared cars in those years... Michael had Lemons races to add to his experience, James drove dirt cars and Dan has been getting time with The Driver's Edge... I spotted Jeremiah running Karts at TWS and he cross trains by running and biking AND his car prep is better than most...

FYI.. after the 3 hour enduro I have started working out.. I'm down to 160lbs and working on cardio... as soon as the paychecks start getting deposited, work starts on the 3 car... and I'll be at as many TDE events as I can fit in... Glenn is right... "seat time"... but physical prep and car prep are equally important...

[GlennCMC70]

I don't care what is "allowed" any more... beef up supports, add non factory TAs... the rules changes basically elimated the TPI motor... so I don't care what happens now...

Not sure why you say that. There is a parts list for the upgrade. No different that the Fox/SN-95 upgrades. It is a far better option than just quitting. If I had a 3rd gen, I would run a carb 350 or an LT1.

[michaelmosty]

Bob Denton's carb 305 has always been a beast.
BTW, David congrats on the new fitness plan!!! Keep up the good work!!

[ShadowBolt]

I think a Camaro with a torque arm WITHOUT coilovers has an advantage-look at the dominance that has been done with the 3rd Gen chassis.

Are you looking for a way to fix the chassis problems of the PM3L or do you want to talk platform parity? Do you want to allow the Fox a torque arm only and not the SN95 or do you think the SN95 is at a disadvantage too? What would it prove if you put a torque arm on a mustang and it ran 1 second quicker? Then it would get weight to bring it back in line don't you think?

BL,
No doubt Mustang drivers will need a fix for this as time goes on. The $200.00 I spent for two upper arms is crazy. The box came from Maximum Motorsports but the parts said Ford Racing on them. I assume even this source will dry up at dome point since Ford stopped producing them. I caused this issue on my car and I will figure it out. At some point we will have to find another way.

As far as platform parity is concerned, yes I want to know how close the cars really are. We do NOT know at this point. Maybe the Mustang is the best and all Mustang drivers suck and don't spend any time with car prep. For sure a great driver can win in any of the three or four chassis but that does not mean they are equal! I bet I can out bowl all of you with a $50.00 ball while letting you use a $200.00 high performance ball. The high dollar ball is certainly better but my experence will let me win with less. Same with a car. We thought we were going to get some info in this area had Glenn raced Boudy's car this year but this did not work out. Glenn, you are taking this all wrong. I'm not pissed off or anything. I'm not offended. Why would I be? I'm fixing my car and will be at ECR in Oct. I can't help but wonder (and I'm not alone) if the Mustang is giving something up to the cars with a torque arm. Like I said maybe I'm already driving the best platform........but I don't know. Are you going to tell me that if the Mustang had a torque arm and coil-overs and the Camaro did not that you would not wonder if you were giving up something? Be honest. I certainly can go purchase a Camaro and find out for myself but it would cost way more than its worth to me.

I assumed that if we added the torque arm and the coil overs and got track width as close as possible that then the cars would be as close to equal as possible. Then Gary said the aftermarket torque arms were way better than a stock GM arm. So maybe this is not possible.

JJ