Tire Issues

[michaelmosty]

Just a couple of thoughts:
I have run Chumpcar in a Mustang that had 28 hours of racing (two 14-hour events) on a set of Dunlop Direzza tires (200 treadwear). Granted, being endurance racing the racing was not 100% pedal down but the tires still felt great and after 28 hours still had tread left. I was very surprised at the amount of grip the street tires had.

I like the idea of the NT01's b/c you wouldn't need to shave them and they are cheaper than the RA1's.

Toyo wants to make money and sell more tires. I'm sure they wanted a tire that didn't last as long as the RA1 so they could sell more tires and make more money. Mission accomplished for them, bad for us.

I think the easiest solution for the time being is to go back to the RA1's. I don't have any data but would guess that a 10-heat cycle RA1 would be faster than a 10-heat cycle RR. The brand new RR would have the advantage at the 1st event but after that would not be worth it.
Who knows, just thinking out loud.

[smitty328]

I'd love to run NT01s. Too bad they don't make them in 295s.

[RichardP]

I think we can all agree that the Toyo RR has perceived “issues” with lifespan.

I know I'm a bit anal, but we should clear up our terminology. I'm actually just fine with the wear I've gotten on the RR. I think a race tire that would last a whole season is a bit unrealistic. I'm OK with 2.5 - 3 weekends. I'm also not opposed to one that would last longer...

The issue as I see it for a spec tire series is the heat cycle degradation. With the number of heat cycles we put on in a weekend, there is a competitive advantage to showing up every weekend with a fresh set. There is possibly an advantage to showing up with more than one set. That is a significant driver for a race budget. It sucks a bit of the fun out of the whole thing if you know you are going to be in the hole versus your competitors unless you cough up big money every weekend.


Richard P.

[michaelmosty]

I completely agree with Richard. I have 8 heat cycles on my RR's and they still look very good. I agree the heat cycle degradation issue is the key here.

[marshall_mosty]

I have nothing against whatever tire we use. My RR's with 17 heat cycles have a BUNCH of meat left (based on the indicator holes). I was planning on running my 7 heat cycle tires vs. 17 heat cycles at NOLA, but oh well...

I'd love a handshake agreement to have a 10 tire per season cap. It would have to be somewhat on the honor system, as the officials would have no way to know when folks flip/swap/replace tires. That would make it a game of tire management...

[GlennCMC70]

This should really be talked about on the National site. For things like what Marshall was saying (local AIX/AIX Light) "agreements" is one thing that can be done on a local level. We would be creating some of the issues we don't like seeing ourselves w/ not following the rules to the T. We want to race the same ruleset whether we are in region or out of region. Other (most) feel the same way.
If we are going to push for a tire change, we need to do it on a National front. We can all agree here, but it takes a lot more than that.

So far I agree w/ all that has been said.
We want a tire that lasts longer w/ very little or no drop off till we see cords. No shaving. Under $1000 per set.
Toyo wants to sell tires. There are two ways to do that. 1- Make fast tires. 2- Make tires that work well for SPEC class's that are cheep and last forever.
#2 only works if ALOT of classes use the tires.

The starting point should be w/ NASA HQ and asking if Toyo knows what the racers wants in a tire. Who told them if they do and what was said to them. What was the response.
I feel fairly confident in saying none of us have been happy w/ Toyo since the R888 was pushed on us. From that point forward, something fishy has been going on w/ the tire.

I put in a call to Al F today (2nd one in a couple weeks). We will see if I get a call back. I'll give it a few days and then I'll ping NASA HQ (via Will F) and see what I can find out.
My bet is, we have a deal for X years that can't be changed. This to include CMC being required to use Toyo's. Possibly time for a rouge class of MCC (Mustang Camaro Challenge).

[GlennCMC70]

I have nothing against whatever tire we use. My RR's with 17 heat cycles have a BUNCH of meat left (based on the indicator holes). I was planning on running my 7 heat cycle tires vs. 17 heat cycles at NOLA, but oh well...

I'd love a handshake agreement to have a 10 tire per season cap. It would have to be somewhat on the honor system, as the officials would have no way to know when folks flip/swap/replace tires. That would make it a game of tire management...

Don't all tires have barcodes now days?

[GlennCMC70]

I posted this in another thread. Really belongs here.


In the glory days of the RA1 (2005 to 2009? ) there was a saying about tires -Thin to win!
seemed like the tires were fastest just before they would show cords.
Life was simple then. Shave to 4/32nd and run them till they get so thin they cant keep the air in.
That is what a spec tire should be.
We used to say the RA1's sucked, but they sucked for a long time.

[MikeP99Z]

I burned 5 sets of RRs in 3 weekends.

Granted one set was killed during a practice day learning the characteristics of the tire, and another set was just used for the Atlanta champ race. The first set was almost paid for by Toyo from winning last years regional AI championship.

I won 4 Toyo bucks races (2 at Cresson, 2 at TWS) which paid for just over 2 tires (burned 8 tires to do it). Finished 3rd at Atlanta which will get me $500 cash from Toyo that will be taxed.

I'm not pleased with anything Toyo at the moment.

[Casey_SS]

This thread needs a Like button....

Count me in for a gentleman's agreement and/or regional outlaw class that solves the tire cost issue we're all unhappy about. FWIW, I think the NT01 would be a great lower-cost alternative for an open-tire / outlaw class but we'd still need an honor-based usage cap of some sort to level the playing field and not have guys showing up with sticker NT01s for every race. Surely a 0-1 heat cycle NT01 is faster than a 15-20 heat cycle NT01.

Street tires would be a fun experiment but are so different from what we've always used, it would really favor those willing to spend lots of time & money on testing and setup changes.