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Thread: 200 TW Tire Sub Class Interest

  1. #1
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    200 TW Tire Sub Class Interest

    Wanted to get this out to everyone. Have spoken to a few who haven't been racing, have been racing sporadically, or racing all the time and seems there is some interest in more experimentation with running a longer lasting tire with less drop off. Seeing as there are several events upcoming and Discount Tire will be having a sale this weekend I wanted to let everyone know and if you have interest to please PM, call, or text me.

    Prefer not to make this into a big arguing thread but if interested feel free to reply Interested and I could gather everyone on an email string? If you have suggestions/experience about which tire to run that is constructive please share as the goal is to find a tire that doesn't fall off after multiple events. This is to try and continue what seems to be a successful test by Sook/Alford/Records last year with the Falken 615+ which Spec Vette runs.

    The goal would be to gather enough who would be interested in trying to run a longer lasting tire to either pick a tire or pick a few to experiment with. If you still want to run the RR for the money races that's cool as you could use this in non Toyo races, warmup, practice, etc. Plan would be to find out how many would do this and go to Will to follow the same formula Time Trial has done. With more than three people running I'll donate some sort of trophy and could look for a sponsor/donations. I see this as an excellent way to bring new drivers into the class who are concerned with the largest cost of running a car being the RR.

    Currently I'm targeting to order a set of Falken Azenis RT 615+ from Discount Tire this weekend during their Presidents Day Sale if you use their card I expect a 10-15% savings. In the interest of making this experiment about helping racers budgets the 255/40/17 tire is $150 each so I'm thinking a full set could be had for $510-540. The 275 is $201.

    Could also reach out to Phil's Tire as they show a few Federal and Nankangs that are $158-185 per tire.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  2. #2
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    A couple of questions:
    What results were seen from last years testing that has individuals wanting to do more experimentation?
    Are those that want to do more experimentation willing to share those feelings for all of us to understand the reasoning?
    Also, how do you see this being a benefit to CMC?
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC #11 Mosty Brothers' Racing
    Director - TX Region

  3. #3
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    A couple of questions:
    What results were seen from last years testing that has individuals wanting to do more experimentation?
    Are those that want to do more experimentation willing to share those feelings for all of us to understand the reasoning?
    Also, how do you see this being a benefit to CMC?
    Are you actually interested? If you are then just say your interested or send me a PM, email, text, call, etc. I'll gather everyone who is interested together to discuss further and dive deeper into your questions to keep the arguing off the board as past discussions make it pretty clear who those are that are against a different option. This is the same issue our close relative A Sedan has been struggling with for years and I'm trying to give people another option as opposed to not racing at all or suffering a similar fate.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

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    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanL View Post
    Are you actually interested? If you are then just say your interested or send me a PM, email, text, call, etc. I'll gather everyone who is interested together to discuss further and dive deeper into your questions to keep the arguing off the board as past discussions make it pretty clear who those are that are against a different option. This is the same issue our close relative A Sedan has been struggling with for years and I'm trying to give people another option as opposed to not racing at all or suffering a similar fate.
    I am not interested in a street tire option, I am however interested in keeping the CMC group together and growing as much as possible. I just don't agree this is the way but am always open to all options.

    I also feel like this has absolutely nothing to do with the issues A Sedan has been struggling with. Carbs, 16" wheels, and $10k engines is what was hurting them, not tires considering we are running a similar tire to 95% of the other race groups in NASA.

    Just my opinion though.
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC #11 Mosty Brothers' Racing
    Director - TX Region

  5. #5
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Again. Let’s keep the disagreement out if this thread and just let those interested to respond ‘Interested’ or they can reach out to me directly.
    If you have a suggestion please just send it to me privately as well.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  6. #6
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    If you want to have private conversations with those that respond as "Interested", you are free to do that.

    It is not fair to ask those with a different opinion than you to not post on this open forum.
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC #11 Mosty Brothers' Racing
    Director - TX Region

  7. #7
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    If you want to have private conversations with those that respond as "Interested", you are free to do that.

    It is not fair to ask those with a different opinion than you to not post on this open forum.
    I don't want to speak for Bryan but I think he was just trying to keep this thread from going to shit. If he does not get enough people that say they are interested in his idea then it's all a moot point.

    Most, if not all of us can afford to buy RR's but it sure seams like a waste to me. Of course if Jay and I ran up front more and my RR's were free or almost free I'm sure I would not give a damn how much tires cost for the mid-pack and back of the pack slackers. I may be wrong but I think the cost of tires is keeping some away from racing. Not just in our series. Even if you do like Michael and Kevin and get two race weekends out of a set you are still talking what......six or seven hundred dollars per weekend for RR's? It really does not make a shit to me. I'm 62 years old and my days of racing are numbered and going to a street tire is not going to extend that time frame. I do wish we had done something to attract new racer years ago so we could have had 20 car fields.
    Off my soap box.

    JJ

  8. #8
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    You're wasting your time testing anything outside of a Toyo or Nitto brand of tire.

    The whole issue is spending $ on tires that fall off rapidly and the perception keeping racers away.

    The solution to this issue is

    1. Setup/driving.

    What are the faster guys doing to make a set last longer instead of burning them down to the ground each weekend? Kevin myself and others do an aggressive rotating strategy where the newest tires run Quals and R1/R3 races, second best tires for inverts and warmups, third best for friday TnT. If I weren't missing MSRH/MSRC this would be a 3 set season for me. What else are they doing different on setup and driving style to make them last?

    And/Or

    2. Be realistic.

    NASA is sponsored by Toyo. While it is increasingly accepted by other organizations that classes grow when people are not forced to buy tires that fall off quickly and have to spend cubic dollars to stay up front, it makes no business sense to approve letting a spec class walk away from their product line to some random 200 TW non Toyo brand street tire. The Nitto NT01 supposedly is the original thin to win compound that works great, and its a Toyo sub brand. If we'd spent some time testing on this specific tire and presenting it to management, maybe we'd get some traction on a solution.

    This would also be easier to coordinate with drivers in other classes to make a solid effort on everyone trying the same tire and sending the feedback up to NASA mgmt. I'd even go as far as saying I wouldn't mind paying 20% more for a Toyo-labeled NT01 if it meant having a tire that was more consistent through its lifespan.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pranav View Post
    You're wasting your time testing anything outside of a Toyo or Nitto brand of tire.

    The whole issue is spending $ on tires that fall off rapidly and the perception keeping racers away.

    The solution to this issue is

    1. Setup/driving.

    What are the faster guys doing to make a set last longer instead of burning them down to the ground each weekend? Kevin myself and others do an aggressive rotating strategy where the newest tires run Quals and R1/R3 races, second best tires for inverts and warmups, third best for friday TnT. If I weren't missing MSRH/MSRC this would be a 3 set season for me. What else are they doing different on setup and driving style to make them last?

    And/Or

    2. Be realistic.

    NASA is sponsored by Toyo. While it is increasingly accepted by other organizations that classes grow when people are not forced to buy tires that fall off quickly and have to spend cubic dollars to stay up front, it makes no business sense to approve letting a spec class walk away from their product line to some random 200 TW non Toyo brand street tire. The Nitto NT01 supposedly is the original thin to win compound that works great, and its a Toyo sub brand. If we'd spent some time testing on this specific tire and presenting it to management, maybe we'd get some traction on a solution.

    This would also be easier to coordinate with drivers in other classes to make a solid effort on everyone trying the same tire and sending the feedback up to NASA mgmt. I'd even go as far as saying I wouldn't mind paying 20% more for a Toyo-labeled NT01 if it meant having a tire that was more consistent through its lifespan.
    Pranav,

    Your number one answer requires that I bring 12 tires to every event. I personally have no way of even transporting eight tires and wheels.

    Your number 2 answer assumes the NT01 is really the old RA1 and that even if it is it will hold up to todays speeds.

    JJ

  10. #10
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quick update and some data I compiled last night.

    I have four who are willing to buy a different tire for their next set. Likely would have had another but he ordered a set of RR's the day before. I have had two people reach out that I had not spoken to before I posted. Before I posted I had four who were interested, another one was interested but with more stipulations. This is why I decided to post it as there seemed to be interest. There are several who I haven't reached out to and I have only reached out to one who hasn't been racing for awhile so far.

    Data-Last year we averaged 8.4 racers per weekend from Texas at 5 events. There were 15 different racers throughout the season. So to increase that field by 33% would only be 5 new/old racers to come out.

    Michael-great chat last night. I'm just asking for the respect to allow those who are interested to let it be known without getting argued with. Like Jerry said if there isn't interest and I was the only one then it's moot.

    After we give it some time for people to contact me and me to reach out to others who have cars sitting around then we can see whether it's worth spending any energy to consider there being an option.

    I'll close with the reminder that within Time Trail they have a sub class that uses a 200 TW tire that I need to check on to see what they are doing for 2020. CMC and NASA was started because they wanted a different option from the way SCCA and A Sedan was going so it's part of the culture and I don't it to become what it tried to get away from.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

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