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Thread: 200 TW Tire Sub Class Interest

  1. #11
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby michaelmosty's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to kill this topic but I do want to address that Will has let me know that NASA and CMC have a national agreement with Toyo. CMC is not an open tire class and the approved tires for CMC is the RR and RA1.

    If anyone wants to do testing you are certainly welcome to do so but it is not possible within the current CMC rules.
    I love CMC and have invested 15 years of my life to the AI/CMC family. I want was is best for both the current and future CMC racers.

    If anyone has any questions on this matter please feel free to give me a call on my cell phone.
    -Michael Mosty
    CMC #11 Mosty Brothers' Racing
    Director - TX Region

  2. #12
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    I'm not trying to kill this topic but I do want to address that Will has let me know that NASA and CMC have a national agreement with Toyo. CMC is not an open tire class and the approved tires for CMC is the RR and RA1.

    If anyone wants to do testing you are certainly welcome to do so but it is not possible within the current CMC rules.
    I love CMC and have invested 15 years of my life to the AI/CMC family. I want was is best for both the current and future CMC racers.

    If anyone has any questions on this matter please feel free to give me a call on my cell phone.
    Who is the Race Director this year or at Cresson? AIX is open tire I believe.

    22.5 Fun Runs
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    Director must approve fun run entries before the start of the race. No lap records should be awarded to any
    driver or team that is participating in a fun run.
    Last edited by BryanL; 02-12-2020 at 05:44 PM.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmosty View Post
    I'm not trying to kill this topic but I do want to address that Will has let me know that NASA and CMC have a national agreement with Toyo. CMC is not an open tire class and the approved tires for CMC is the RR and RA1.

    If anyone wants to do testing you are certainly welcome to do so but it is not possible within the current CMC rules.
    I love CMC and have invested 15 years of my life to the AI/CMC family. I want was is best for both the current and future CMC racers.

    If anyone has any questions on this matter please feel free to give me a call on my cell phone.
    I guess I don’t have a dog in this particular fight but I agree totally with Michael. This was debated throughout last season and for the sake of the entire AICMC group it was good to see it finally die down. I’d much rather see this taken off line, get some real data not just anecdotal rubbish and assess the value of what you propose for the group versus what is lost for the group.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    The reason it died down was there wasn't much racing going on and there wasn't any follow up data provided that I'm aware of since. Meanwhile Sook continued to run the Falken. He ran them bald and didn't see the tire falloff after 8 weekends! His opinion is they are about as fast as RR's after the RR falls off but it stays that way for it's whole life. Again only one set but Sook gets more track time than I think anyone here and has won in both platforms so I have a lot of respect for him as well as for other reasons. Here is some data he provided last year during a tire test he did on his own. http://www.aicmctexas.com/showthread...March-2019-CCW.

    All I know is there was interest back then and there still is today. I wanted to get the word out to find if there were any others that I wasn't aware of that would reach out to me which they have. What I wanted to try and find out is if we could get some people who have cars sitting at home back on track (this has brought me to another thought for another thread) I am not trying to get the class to make a change right now or anyone else. But I am going to try and provide some follow up data to offer up and follow up on what Sook/Records/Alford did last year. I would like input (privately) on how to do this and what any possible goals would be.

    The goal in my mind would be to provide an option if there is a tire that wouldn't fall off as much, last longer, be more affordable. If nothing else to find a tire to suggest to people to use for practice days that behaves similarly but is cheaper and lasts longer. If it helps the newbie get on track more then I think that's a win and worth it to me. Daniels feedback was that it 'feels' similar on falkens and RR's. If it understeers with one it will understeer with the other.

    To that end let's try and make this more productive and take offline. I would love input from anyone on what tires to try (Falken and NT01 is what I have heard from most), what data/comparisons you would like to see. I'm willing to run something at Cresson/ECR/Hallett if time allows me to make all those events (I'll be on a campout during COTA). I'll fun run, class in AIX, go to TT I don't care but like Al said ever since the original RA1 was taking away and NASA/TOYO gave us the 888 there have been issues with tires that we didn't see with the original RA1.

    If you don't have my email or contact info please send me a PM and discuss offline.
    Last edited by BryanL; 02-13-2020 at 10:36 AM.
    Bryan Leinart
    CMC #24

  5. #15
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby ShadowBolt's Avatar
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    I will never get over all the lies about Toyo tires. After the new RA1 came out I talked to several higher ups in NASA and I was told the new RA1 was exactly the same as the original one......exactly the same. I was then told the reason the tires were falling off with heat cycles was due to us all being so much faster and harder on the tire than we had been with the old RA1. I assumed that was all true until a few nights ago I spent a few hours on several forums reading about how the old RA1 was fastest right before cording. I was not reading a NASA CMC thread but several classes in SCCA and others like Porsche club. I read over and over about how the RA1 was not great but it just got better and better until it corded. I remember Jeff Burch and Glenn going to nationals and taking what we all called "thin to wins" to use in the championship race. Show me someone trying that with the new RA1 or the RR. So I assume the higher up within NASA were lied to by Toyo. There is no other reason for them to say what they said about the new RA1 when it is obviously not true. Can you imagine the first group of NASA Texas CMC racers like Al, Todd, Eric, Wayne, Adam Jeff Brooks and the other pioneers being told their tires would go away after 12-14 heat cycles. My guess is the class would have never gotten off the ground here in Texas. I certainly do understand why Toyo would not want a race tire to last without falloff. If our class is a TOYO class I don't see what we can do about it. It seams to me they have us by the short hairs.

    JJ
    Last edited by ShadowBolt; 02-14-2020 at 02:40 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Rob Liebbe's Avatar
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    It can be said that some are voting with their wallet (partially my reason - work, time and current car issues are my other reasons). The Nitto NT01 seems to be a really good tire and is used by a friend of mine when running very fast in DE events in a Shelby GT350. I know Nitto is a sub brand of Toyo and is heavily involved in other race types, Drift comes to mind immediately.

    Maybe a pitch to Toyo is that showing the Nitto name in a class that is not based on high spending (all racing is spendy) would be good advertising for the depth and variety of the Toyo family of tires.

    Just an old racer who randomly checked the forum today.
    Rob Liebbe - Texas Region
    Camaro, Mustang, doesn't matter to me, I'll race it.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBolt View Post
    I will never get over all the lies about Toyo tires. After the new RA1 came out I talked to several higher ups in NASA and I was told the new RA1 was exactly the same as the original one......exactly the same. I was then told the reason the tires were falling off with heat cycles was due to us all being so much faster and harder on the tire than we had been with the old RA1. I assumed that was all true until a few nights ago I spent a few hours on several forums reading about how the old RA1 was fastest right before cording. I was not reading a NASA CMC thread but several classes in SCCA and others like Porsche club. I read over and over about how the RA1 was not great but it just got better and better until it corded. I remember Jeff Burch and Glenn going to nationals and taking what we all called "thin to wins" to use in the championship race. Show me someone trying that with the new RA1 or the RR. So I assume the higher up within NASA were lied to by Toyo. There is no other reason for them to say what they said about the new RA1 when it is obviously not true. Can you imagine the first group of NASA Texas CMC racers like Al, Todd, Eric, Wayne, Adam Jeff Brooks and the other pioneers being told their tires would go away after 12-14 heat cycles. My guess is the class would have never gotten off the ground here in Texas. I certainly do understand why Toyo would not want a race tire to last without falloff. If our class is a TOYO class I don't see what we can do about it. It seams to me they have us by the short hairs.

    JJ
    Toyo is writing some VERY large checks to NASA...remember they paid a $70k purse at COTA in 2018 to the Spec Miata winner and I am sure they are lining the pockets of several NASA partners to be the title sponsor. that is how things work. They also LISTENED to racers who complained about having to shave the RA1 because there were exactly THREE shops in the US of A that could do it properly. I'm not defending NASA or Toyo at all but the imperfect situation has gotten all the spec classes to where they are right now. Tarriffs are probably going to start jacking things up too so Racing is just going to keep getting moar expensive. Suxx but that is life. At least you aren't buying tires that are $430 ea and last 3 to 4 heat cycles. And those aren't even the fastest tires I NEED to buy to be at the sharp end of the field. Those are $600 ea.
    To hell with the rules, the guidelines and the politics....built the car to my wishes and having fun being the underdog running with the Wolves!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby Fbody383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI#97 View Post
    At least you aren't buying tires that are $430 ea and last 3 to 4 heat cycles. And those aren't even the fastest tires I NEED to buy to be at the sharp end of the field. Those are $600 ea.
    CMC doesn't/can't exist in that paradigm. I think you support the point - one of the original hallmarks of the series was NOT having to outspend the field in tires.
    #39 CMC Camaro
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    CMC-NT01 FTW!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Carroll Shelby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fbody383 View Post
    CMC doesn't/can't exist in that paradigm. I think you support the point - one of the original hallmarks of the series was NOT having to outspend the field in tires.
    True but toyo has no incentive to do better because the only options are to switch to Nitto NT01 or go to Hoosier/other. Remember, they are probably only catering to somewhere between 500 and 700 customers buying spec tires in the entire country and most of those are buying the 205/50/15 tire. I doubt toyo sells much of the non-spec sizes of the RR to track day folks. to go to anything else to keep costs down means going slower and NASA isn't going to do that until someone shows up with MOAR cash than Toyo.

    I know WRL is about to announce a new tire sponsor program and it might be Nankang from the tire size list they sent out. won't know till they announce it though. I've run on them and they remind me of the old RA1...just not sure how they heat cycle yet.
    To hell with the rules, the guidelines and the politics....built the car to my wishes and having fun being the underdog running with the Wolves!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Grass-Passer Supercharged111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe View Post
    It can be said that some are voting with their wallet (partially my reason - work, time and current car issues are my other reasons).
    A dozen or so drivers speaking with their wallets isn't going to get the attention of Toyo to get them to change their recipe. If the rest of the folks Nationwide and in all classes running RRs aren't speaking with their wallets then you're wasting your time. I'm betting there aren't all that many current racers who've experienced the original RA1 so most just accept the tire situation for what it is, not knowing that it could be better.
    RM CMC Director

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