CMC and header wrap on exhaust manifolds - not legal.

[Fbody383]

WOW! Once again, Glenn comes out of left field with his "new interpretation" of a rule...

I don't think it's a new interpretation.

You guys need to come out and play again.

[Papa Kellam]

I'm amazed that all of you smart guys have not figured it out.
I'll give you a hint. Does Sebastian Vettel dominate the F1 world because he or his team are cheaters? Does Tiger Woods cheat (at golf)?

Another suggestion: The only rule would be the HP/Weight table. You can do anything else you want. Guess what. You still will have the same people winning races and the same people will be whinning.

You'll have fun now!

[David Love AI27]

I'm amazed that all of you smart guys have not figured it out.
I'll give you a hint. Does Sebastian Vettel dominate the F1 world because he or his team are cheaters? Does Tiger Woods cheat (at golf)?

Another suggestion: The only rule would be the HP/Weight table. You can do anything else you want. Guess what. You still will have the same people winning races and the same people will be whinning.

You'll have fun now!

Gotta love US old guys....

its OK pappa... LiiR is nothing but a bunch of cheaters too...

Bring the Bullit... Jason and I are gonna try and get up there and run TT or AI... where ever we can find a group where the car is legal...

[Fbody383]

I'll give you a hint. Does Sebastian Vettel dominate the F1 world because he or his team are cheaters?

F1 is a bad example. Remember that for the 2009 season Brawn and several others coaxed the double diffuser out of the rule set and other teams didn't because they thought it went against the spirit/intent of the rule.

Nobody is denying you guys got skillz, and some other cars got caught in the hp/tq rule progression that made room for newer cars. There have been some other unfortunate circumstances that were clear rules violations that had gone unintentionally unenforced.

I have not seen any malicious prosecution of anyone, but maybe that's because I'm just the old, slow, fat guy at the back. But there's Toyos at the back now.

[jeremiahkellam]

I don't think it's a new interpretation.

Our rules really only tell us what is specifically allowed, so everything else is open to interpretation by the powers to be, and I would bet most interpretations are going to be in their favor, especially if they race themsevles...

I can only assume that Glenn, or someone else who is only allowed to run the stock exhaust mainfolds (which are physically impossible to wrap), realized that it was unfair that some, who are allowed to run aftermarket headers, could wrap their headers, while they are not able. So if all cant have some, nobody gets any... And thats fine. But handle it in a more diplomatic way. Make the statement, present the supporting facts, and then go away if that is your final decision. Dont hang around leaving it open for discusion that goes no where.

Yes, I have had header wrap on my car from day one, and have had more than one person stick their head under my hood looking for something wrong. Nothing was ever said...I'm not implying that this ruling was directed at me, I'm not even racing. But the fact that (once again) this is only brought up in the Texas forums, means it is directed at someone in this group. Nothing is said of this on the national forum.

[Alien]

Our rules really only tell us what is specifically allowed, so everything else is open to interpretation by the powers to be,

Huh? Maybe I'm just dumb, but since our rules are built around, if it doesn't say you can, you can't, how can everything else be open to interpretation by the powers that be? The only items that are possible to be open to interpertation are the items that ARE stated in the rules. I've built a rally car that used the opposite style rule set, it said what you can't do, pretty much anything else was legal. In that situation, I can see how everything else could be open to interpretation.

But the fact that (once again) this is only brought up in the Texas forums, means it is directed at someone in this group. Nothing is said of this on the national forum.

Huh?

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.co...pic.php?t=4113

Dated a few days before this thread started. I though Glenn was basically cross posting it here to keep the Tx racers informed of what was going on in the national forum since I'm sure not everyone visits a dozen forums a day.

I crack up at the statements of "I've been running this or that for x many years now and nobody ever said anything". When I get pulled over for not having a front license plate, I sure as hell don't tell the cop, well the last three officers never said anything about it. I just think to myself, well, I guess I've 'gotten away'* with it until now.

*Gotten away can be intentionally knowing I was illegal (in the case of no front plate) or unintenionally not knowing, like the silly law that states you can't turn right at a red light if someone is in the right lane, even if they are pulled so far forward/to the left that you can sqeeze by.

*edit* and I sure as hell hope we don't get to the point where everyone's car has to go thru a 30 minute CMC tech inspection every weekend just so nobody can cry the "I've been running it" line because that's really the only way to solve it. And DL thought the ARCA tech was bad.

[RichardP]

Yes, I have had header wrap on my car from day one.

Wow, next you are going to tell us that you had a catch tank on your axle breather. When will it stop...


Richard P.

[GlennCMC70]

Our rules really only tell us what is specifically allowed, so everything else is open to interpretation by the powers to be, and I would bet most interpretations are going to be in their favor, especially if they race themsevles...

I can only assume that Glenn, or someone else who is only allowed to run the stock exhaust mainfolds (which are physically impossible to wrap), realized that it was unfair that some, who are allowed to run aftermarket headers, could wrap their headers, while they are not able. So if all cant have some, nobody gets any... And thats fine. But handle it in a more diplomatic way. Make the statement, present the supporting facts, and then go away if that is your final decision. Dont hang around leaving it open for discusion that goes no where.

Yes, I have had header wrap on my car from day one, and have had more than one person stick their head under my hood looking for something wrong. Nothing was ever said...I'm not implying that this ruling was directed at me, I'm not even racing. But the fact that (once again) this is only brought up in the Texas forums, means it is directed at someone in this group. Nothing is said of this on the national forum.

Gary covered it pretty much.
You really need to get off your high horse and stop thinking all issues like this are a result of what you have done.
Difficult or not to wrap, I asked back in 2004 about being allowed to wrap my OEM manifolds. I was told no. I didn't assume it was OK since it wasn't written into the rules (like you did), I asked. Up until 2006 that was all well and good. Go back and take a look at the 2007 or 2008 proposed rules changes, and you will see where I asked this rule to be changed since those who were allowed non-OEM manifolds/headers were allowed "coatings" (not wrapped headers) and that this stance was unfair. I don't like this rule. I don't like having to enforce it. But I do enforce it and all the CMC rules - like them or not.
So, none of this is a result of have's and have not's. It is a result of a question asked over on the National forums that I answered.
So I handled it the very way you asked me to. I had no names of who and who didn't have this done, other than Bryan Lienart said he had just wrapped his and hadn't installed. It was an effort to not get caught w/ ones pants down. It was only after I made my post here that I was told by other folks about who was not legal. For the 2nd time in what seems like as many months, you have come in here and rat'ed yourself out. It has always been "How dare you think I'm not legal." when questioned, but here we are w/ two examples of you not following the rules.
Been lots of racing going on since you stopped running w/ us. Lots of new folks building new cars asking the same old questions I asked many years ago. They will likely get asked again in the future.

A couple of you guys here got some serious issues. Its never your fault. Always some one here out to get you. I got news for ya both - you ain't that special. Get over yourself and grow up.

[GlennCMC70]

Wow, next you are going to tell us that you had a catch tank on your axle breather. When will it stop...


Richard P.

On this subject....
I have submitted a rules proposal (a few days ago) that allows a catch can for the diff to be installed. All Directors who have responded agree w/ allowing it. It is a matter of word-smithing the rule at this point. And it is so odd that I'm the one who took this to the Directors to have it allowed and written into the rules, yet I don't have one. Kid of disproves a point made somewhere above. I also didn't make a post here about "If you have a rear diff catch can, you will be DQ'ed!". Nope, I took it to the directors and got it clarified and soon to be legalized.

[Papa Kellam]

Glenn,

You're are one amazing dude. If there is anyone that thinks they are Gods gift to racing it is you. As for someone with serious issues " that's like the rat calling the kettle a long nose SOB". You are the worst example of what NASA should be promoting that I have seen, but what do I know. We just came, cheated like a couple riverboat gamblers and kicked ass. Some people just can't accept that some header wrap and a 1/2" of geometric modification to a car at this level makes them a cheater and that is the only reason that they won is absurd. You just refuse to answer the simple question that I ask. You and your ADVOCATES are simply controlling individuals and as long as everyone plays by your rules (and pays their money) you leave them alone. They are not a threat to your SUPERIORITY. I 've seen this kind of shit when I was 10 years old playing sandlot football. You are the one that needs to grow up and get over yourself.

You didn't tell me if you would disqualify me if I ran HDPE. You will take my $280 though right?

Have a nice day.