200 TW Tire Sub Class Interest

[ShadowBolt]

I will never get over all the lies about Toyo tires. After the new RA1 came out I talked to several higher ups in NASA and I was told the new RA1 was exactly the same as the original one......exactly the same. I was then told the reason the tires were falling off with heat cycles was due to us all being so much faster and harder on the tire than we had been with the old RA1. I assumed that was all true until a few nights ago I spent a few hours on several forums reading about how the old RA1 was fastest right before cording. I was not reading a NASA CMC thread but several classes in SCCA and others like Porsche club. I read over and over about how the RA1 was not great but it just got better and better until it corded. I remember Jeff Burch and Glenn going to nationals and taking what we all called "thin to wins" to use in the championship race. Show me someone trying that with the new RA1 or the RR. So I assume the higher up within NASA were lied to by Toyo. There is no other reason for them to say what they said about the new RA1 when it is obviously not true. Can you imagine the first group of NASA Texas CMC racers like Al, Todd, Eric, Wayne, Adam Jeff Brooks and the other pioneers being told their tires would go away after 12-14 heat cycles. My guess is the class would have never gotten off the ground here in Texas. I certainly do understand why Toyo would not want a race tire to last without falloff. If our class is a TOYO class I don't see what we can do about it. It seams to me they have us by the short hairs.

JJ

[Rob Liebbe]

It can be said that some are voting with their wallet (partially my reason - work, time and current car issues are my other reasons). The Nitto NT01 seems to be a really good tire and is used by a friend of mine when running very fast in DE events in a Shelby GT350. I know Nitto is a sub brand of Toyo and is heavily involved in other race types, Drift comes to mind immediately.

Maybe a pitch to Toyo is that showing the Nitto name in a class that is not based on high spending (all racing is spendy) would be good advertising for the depth and variety of the Toyo family of tires.

Just an old racer who randomly checked the forum today.

[Supercharged111]

It can be said that some are voting with their wallet (partially my reason - work, time and current car issues are my other reasons).

A dozen or so drivers speaking with their wallets isn't going to get the attention of Toyo to get them to change their recipe. If the rest of the folks Nationwide and in all classes running RRs aren't speaking with their wallets then you're wasting your time. I'm betting there aren't all that many current racers who've experienced the original RA1 so most just accept the tire situation for what it is, not knowing that it could be better.

[AllZWay]

I wish you guys all the best of luck in getting somewhere, but it is painfully obvious that neither NASA or Toyo have any desire to help the situation and simply don't give a rats ass about it and therefore you are mostly peeing into the wind.

Just another old racer who randomly checked the forum today.

[AI#97]

I will never get over all the lies about Toyo tires. After the new RA1 came out I talked to several higher ups in NASA and I was told the new RA1 was exactly the same as the original one......exactly the same. I was then told the reason the tires were falling off with heat cycles was due to us all being so much faster and harder on the tire than we had been with the old RA1. I assumed that was all true until a few nights ago I spent a few hours on several forums reading about how the old RA1 was fastest right before cording. I was not reading a NASA CMC thread but several classes in SCCA and others like Porsche club. I read over and over about how the RA1 was not great but it just got better and better until it corded. I remember Jeff Burch and Glenn going to nationals and taking what we all called "thin to wins" to use in the championship race. Show me someone trying that with the new RA1 or the RR. So I assume the higher up within NASA were lied to by Toyo. There is no other reason for them to say what they said about the new RA1 when it is obviously not true. Can you imagine the first group of NASA Texas CMC racers like Al, Todd, Eric, Wayne, Adam Jeff Brooks and the other pioneers being told their tires would go away after 12-14 heat cycles. My guess is the class would have never gotten off the ground here in Texas. I certainly do understand why Toyo would not want a race tire to last without falloff. If our class is a TOYO class I don't see what we can do about it. It seams to me they have us by the short hairs.

JJ

Toyo is writing some VERY large checks to NASA...remember they paid a $70k purse at COTA in 2018 to the Spec Miata winner and I am sure they are lining the pockets of several NASA partners to be the title sponsor. that is how things work. They also LISTENED to racers who complained about having to shave the RA1 because there were exactly THREE shops in the US of A that could do it properly. I'm not defending NASA or Toyo at all but the imperfect situation has gotten all the spec classes to where they are right now. Tarriffs are probably going to start jacking things up too so Racing is just going to keep getting moar expensive. Suxx but that is life. At least you aren't buying tires that are $430 ea and last 3 to 4 heat cycles. And those aren't even the fastest tires I NEED to buy to be at the sharp end of the field. Those are $600 ea.

[Fbody383]

At least you aren't buying tires that are $430 ea and last 3 to 4 heat cycles. And those aren't even the fastest tires I NEED to buy to be at the sharp end of the field. Those are $600 ea.

CMC doesn't/can't exist in that paradigm. I think you support the point - one of the original hallmarks of the series was NOT having to outspend the field in tires.

[AI#97]

CMC doesn't/can't exist in that paradigm. I think you support the point - one of the original hallmarks of the series was NOT having to outspend the field in tires.

True but toyo has no incentive to do better because the only options are to switch to Nitto NT01 or go to Hoosier/other. Remember, they are probably only catering to somewhere between 500 and 700 customers buying spec tires in the entire country and most of those are buying the 205/50/15 tire. I doubt toyo sells much of the non-spec sizes of the RR to track day folks. to go to anything else to keep costs down means going slower and NASA isn't going to do that until someone shows up with MOAR cash than Toyo.

I know WRL is about to announce a new tire sponsor program and it might be Nankang from the tire size list they sent out. won't know till they announce it though. I've run on them and they remind me of the old RA1...just not sure how they heat cycle yet.