Scientific evaluation of Camaro/Mustang performance parity

[roadracerwhite]

Bob will have his third gen, the fourth gen is no where close to being ready.

I don't think it matters where nationals is at as far as CMC is concerned, if it isn't a destination track on your bucket list CMC will have a low turnout. We all are just too cheap to drive across country for anything less. If it is in Texas next year, it will probably be a great event for CMC, so lets hope it is in Texas.

Bryan

[Sidney]

...Any data will be useless.

You're so full of shit and you know it. If you had the cash to be there you'd have a completely different view. I really thought you got it...guess not.

The point I was trying to make is any amatuer series can only use their National Championship as a check for rules equity. This is not Grand Am or Nascar where all teams race every weekend. These organizations can make rules changes weekly to make sure one brand isn't out performing another. NASA can only compare cars at Nationals, SCCA can only compare cars at the Runoffs, IT classes can only compare at the ARRC at Road Atlanta. You can't make rules changes based on data only received from Texas cars.

Sidney

[GlennCMC70]

You're so full of shit and you know it. If you had the cash to be there you'd have a completely different view. I really thought you got it...guess not.

The point I was trying to make is any amatuer series can only use their National Championship as a check for rules equity. This is not Grand Am or Nascar where all teams race every weekend. These organizations can make rules changes weekly to make sure one brand isn't out performing another. NASA can only compare cars at Nationals, SCCA can only compare cars at the Runoffs, IT classes can only compare at the ARRC at Road Atlanta. You can't make rules changes based on data only received from Texas cars.

Sidney

Understand sarcasm when you see it. You obviously don't know me very well.
Any data is good data as long as you know the limits of what it is telling you. That includes regional data as well. Nationals is not special in that regard. And I'm not sure why you think rules are made/changed based on Texas.... If that was the case, you wouln't have 13" 4 pistom brakes in CMC. No wings either. And alot of S-197 rules have changed w/out a single one here in TX.

For someone who isnt racing in CMC (sold your car right?), you seem to have alot of strong and public opinions these days. Where was all this when it affected you?

[Sidney]

Understand sarcasm when you see it. You obviously don't know me very well.
Any data is good data as long as you know the limits of what it is telling you. That includes regional data as well. Nationals is not special in that regard. And I'm not sure why you think rules are made/changed based on Texas.... If that was the case, you wouln't have 13" 4 pistom brakes in CMC. No wings either. And alot of S-197 rules have changed w/out a single one here in TX.

For someone who isnt racing in CMC (sold your car right?), you seem to have alot of strong and public opinions these days. Where was all this when it affected you?

Unfortunately NASA Nationals is that special as it's the one event that can be considered the place where the best drivers race together. If you don't agree with that then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So what Region wanted 13" 4 piston brakes? Sure wasn't GL/MW.

The Mustang rules were changed because the leaders drive F-bodies and no one in Texas was going to bitch at them about putting them on 235's!

You obviously don't know me either as the 12 seasons that I had a comp license I posted/emailed/called/attended rules meeting...etc often.

Sidney

[AllZWay]

Unfortunately NASA Nationals is that special as it's the one event that can be considered the place where the best drivers race together. If you don't agree with that then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Sidney

I think many will disagree... racing with a handful of cars with only a few of those actually competitive is hardly worthy of a "national" race. IMHO

[ShadowBolt]

I think many will disagree... racing with a handful of cars with only a few of those actually competitive is hardly worthy of a "national" race. IMHO

I'm with you James. Nationals has not been the place to race the best of the best in CMC. Hallett a few years ago when we had guys from three or four regions may not have had every top driver in the country but it had ten times the total talent any Nats has had.
The driver many consider to be the best in Texas has never even been to a national event. That may be true for other regions as well.
JJ

[GlennCMC70]

I'm with you James. Nationals has not been the place to race the best of the best in CMC. Hallett a few years ago when we had guys from three or four regions may not have had every top driver in the country but it had ten times the total talent any Nats has had.
The driver many consider to be the best in Texas has never even been to a national event. That may be true for other regions as well.
JJ

I'll have to say the best I know of was the first Nats. 23 cars.

[ShadowBolt]

I'll have to say the best I know of was the first Nats. 23 cars.

Before my time.

JJ

[BryanL]

Unfortunately NASA Nationals is that special as it's the one event that can be considered the place where the best drivers race together. If you don't agree with that then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So what Region wanted 13" 4 piston brakes? Sure wasn't GL/MW.

The Mustang rules were changed because the leaders drive F-bodies and no one in Texas was going to bitch at them about putting them on 235's!

You obviously don't know me either as the 12 seasons that I had a comp license I posted/emailed/called/attended rules meeting...etc often.

Sidney

Yep-we will have to disagree about Nats. It would be great to be able to consider it the place where all the best drivers of the country race together but that just isn't the case.

Probably could agree on the 4 piston brakes though-that wasn't the Texas Region.

That being said, I can't wait for Dan to bring home the trophy!!!!!

[BlueFirePony]

. . .
The point I was trying to make is any amatuer series can only use their National Championship as a check for rules equity. This is not Grand Am or Nascar where all teams race every weekend. These organizations can make rules changes weekly to make sure one brand isn't out performing another. NASA can only compare cars at Nationals, SCCA can only compare cars at the Runoffs, IT classes can only compare at the ARRC at Road Atlanta. You can't make rules changes based on data only received from Texas cars.

Sidney

Sidney, I agree that data from Nationals should be used as a data point, but I don't agree that it is the only data point, nor the most important.
NASA's business model, as I understand it, depends on growing regional participation and stabilizing regional competition - NASA gains credibility with the National event and it should factor in, but not be THE driver (pun).
The sports design (everything from rule set to promotion to operations) NEEDS to drive regional participation and competition.
Platform parity affects every race in every region all year long...get it wrong and the business suffers in orders of magnitude more than just low participation at National level.
Using National data alone will not translate regionally. Using regional data AND national data will translate regionally AND nationally.
It's easier to talk over a long weekend with a dozen or so drivers but its better to spend time analyzing data from a dozen or so regions over a reasonable period of time.
Seems the rules in CMC to support the S197 in general and big brakes specifically are a case in point, yes?